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This is who currently represents firearm ownership in the UK.

Gun owners, don't you think it's time to kick these people (that got us here in the first place) to the curb?

Organization and Activism / Petition: allow concealed carry of handguns
« on: November 19, 2015, 11:51:29 pm »

Repeal the ban on ownership of handguns, and include personal protection.

The ban on ownership of handguns in the UK needs to be repealed, and this should include the ability to purchase a handgun for personal protection. This should cover training, and certification for both open and concealed carry in public places. We have a right to protect ourselves.

The above petition has gained quite a few signatures and ruffled the feathers of some:

Let's try and get as many signatures as we can.

English Shooting Channel: Paris Attacks - Time for Self Defence


Please email the Living History and Re-enactment organizations below to request that they write to the Law Commission and recommend that 'antique' include all reproduction muzzle-loading muskets using a flintlock or matchlock mechanism.

The National Association of Re-enactment Societies!contact/c1d94

Muzzle Loaders Association

Historic UK


The Sealed Knot

The English Civil War Society


The American Civil War Society

The Southern Skirmish Association


The Pike and Shot Society


Copy and paste the letter below into an email addressed to the organizations above , or better yet put it into your own words:


As you may be aware the latest Law Commission is seeking public input and considering recommendations on what should constitute an 'antique' firearm. I am writing to request that your organization write to the Law Commission and recommend that all reproduction muzzle-loading muskets that use an obsolete ignition such as a matchlock or flintlock mechanism be included in the definition of 'antique' and be exempt from the need to acquire a Firearm Certificate.

Below is a template response that you can use although your own words regarding the context of your organization are recommended:

"We request that any amended definition of 'antique' or Home Office guidance should explicitly include modern reproductions of firearms that use an obsolete means of ignition such as matchlock and flintlock muskets, putting the law in line with the majority of Europe.

These date back as early as the 1300s and should be treated no different than crossbows with regards to sale and purchase. In France and indeed the majority of Europe, muzzle-loading black powder firearms can be purchased and owned without needing to apply for any type of licence.

The need to obtain a firearms certificate puts a needless bureaucratic burden on those wishing to engage in culturally beneficial living history activities while offering nothing in the way of public safety since these are entirely ignored by criminals. Muzzle-loading firearms made before 1939 can already be purchased freely in the UK, so going through a lengthy and costly firearm certificate process for an example made after this date is not proportionate and and simply presents an unnecessary public expense.

Their use in battle reenactments would already require and adhere to legislation regarding the acquisition and safe storage of black powder thus we see no reason to require additional licencing of the guns themselves. Those who are currently prohibited from owning airguns are also prohibited from owning all antique guns, so convicted criminals cannot legally own them already.

We believe all historical reproductions being exempt from firearms certificate requirements strikes proportionate balance between public safety and their legitimate use by law abiding owners and request that the commission recommend this change to the Government ."

Here are the relevant links:

Here is a link to the Law Commission paper on reforming firearm law. They are supposed to approach this neutrally, but as we all know certain hostile minority groups will get center stage.

You are encouraged to answer the questions listed and send to the email address or mail address provided in the link below

Here are our suggestions (in bold) for each question. Try to phrase everything in your own words and personalize as much as you can. If your profession is relevant, try to include mention.

Copy and paste what is below (re-word slightly if you can) and Email your suggestions to:



Provisional proposal 1
9.1 The meaning of lethal should be set by reference to a fixed muzzle kinetic
Do consultees agree?


Consultation question 1
9.2 What should the lethality threshold be?
c) 2.5 joules for single shot and 1.3 joules for fully automatic weapons; or
d) 1 joule.


Consultation question 2
9.3 If the threshold of lethality was set at 1 joule would it have a disproportionate
impact upon the legitimate trade in air weapons?


Consultation question 3
9.4 If the threshold of lethality was set at 1 joule should there be a specific exemption
for the airsoft trade, similar to that already contained within the Violent Crime
Reduction Act 2006?


Provisional proposal 2
9.5 To maximise clarity and certainty, the FCC’s modified list of component parts
should be enshrined in law, namely:
(1) the barrel, chamber, cylinder;
(2) the frame, body or receivers upper and lower where present in the
complete firearm;
(3) the breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the charge at
the rear of the chamber; and

No restrictions should be placed on such inanimate pieces of metal that on their own cannot cause harm. This will unfairly criminalize collectors and militaria enthusiasts who commonly come into possession of such items which serve as no more than interesting paperweights.

Provisional proposal 3.
9.6 We provisionally propose the Secretary of State is given the power to amend the
list by way of order.
Do consultees agree?


Provisional proposal 4
9.7 We provisionally propose that as a matter of law a component part will remain
such so long as it is capable of fulfilling its intended function as part of a firearm.
Do consultees agree?


Consultation question 4
9.8 Do consultees have a view on whether the component parts of a shotgun should
be subject to control? If so in what terms?

Component parts of shotguns should not be subject to control. Shotguns are in wide use and such a move will simply criminalize the otherwise law abiding.

Provisional proposal 5
9.9 The failure to define antique firearm is a significant omission which causes
problems in practice and therefore it is necessary to provide a set of statutory
criteria for determining which firearms can benefit from the exemption in section
Do consultees agree?

No. Although Home Office guidance should be amended to clearly specify that any firearm made before 1945 should be automatically regarded as 'antique' if held as a curiosity or ornament.

Provisional proposal 6
9.10 The deciding factor for determining which firearms can benefit from the
exemption in section 58(2) ought to be functionality.
Do consultees agree?

No. With regards to functionality, all muzzleloading firearms such as flintlock & matchlock muskets, including modern reproductions should be regarded as antique, such as is the case in most of Europe.

Consultation question 5
9.11 We would welcome consultees’ views on the following options for a criterion to
determine which firearms benefit from a new obsolescence exemption:
(1) obsolete cartridge list;
(2) modern cartridge list (Canadian);
(3) year of manufacture conclusive of functionality; or
(4) antique firearm mechanism.

Any firearm manufactured before 1945 should be considered antique, as this covers the majority of firearms considered by collectors and historians as antiques and of historical interest. In addition, all muzzleloading firearms using an obsolete mechanism such as a matchlock or flintlock should not be subject to restrictions and should be clearly exempt from requiring a firearms certificate, regardless of year of manufacture. These obsolete firearms are completely ignored by criminals and obtaining a certificate for modern reproductions presents a bureaucratic burden and needless public expense for those involved in culturally beneficial living history activities and historical re-enactments. The majority of European countries exempt reproduction muzzleloading firearms such as matchlocks and flintlocks from any restriction and the UK should adopt the same stance.

Provisional proposal 7
9.12 Any purchase of an antique firearm must be paid for by cheque or electronic
funds transfer.
Do consultees agree?

No. The vast majority of antique gun sales occur between private individuals, making this proposal completely unworkable.

Provisional proposal 8
9.13 Any sale of an antique firearm must be recorded.
Do consultees agree?

No. This suggestion is completely unenforceable.

Provisional proposal 9
9.14 The offences in sections 16 – 25 ought to be amended to put beyond doubt that
they can be committed by someone in possession of an antique firearm.
Do consultees agree?


Provisional proposal 10
9.15 The statute or regulation should state expressly that only firearms that have been
certified by one of the Proof Houses as being deactivated to a Home Office
approved standard ought to be categorised as ‘deactivated firearms’ and
therefore capable of being possessed without any form of control. A mechanism
would need to be inserted to enable the Proof Houses to certify that a firearm that
has not been deactivated to a Home Office approved standard is nevertheless
irreversibly incapable of discharging a projectile, because of corrosion, for
Do consultees agree?

No. The current Home Office Approved deactivation standards, especially regarding automatic rifles and submachine guns render important pieces of history completely useless to serious collectors, re-enactors and film makers, especially as the weapons can no longer be field stripped, cocked or dry fired. With regards to film, not being able to cock the weapon to simulate it's bolt in it's firing position means film makers instead have to rent live firearms to use on set. Deactivation standards should at the very least allow all deactivated firearms to be cocked and field stripped. A mechanism however should be inserted to allow the Proof Houses to certify firearms that have not been deactivated to a Home Office approved standard.

Consultation question 6
9.16 Based upon the assumption that the preceding question is answered in the
affirmative, do consultees have a view on which of these three methods would be
more appropriate?
(1) Amending the definition of ‘deactivated firearm’ in section 38(7) of the
Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006;
(2) Using the Secretary of State’s regulation making power in section 39 of
the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006; or
(3) Amending section 8 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988.

Allow both Proof Houses as well as independent forensic science services to certify a firearm as being deactivated, even if it has not been deactivated to a Home Office approved standard. (ie a firearm deactivated in Germany)

Provisional proposal 11
9.17 Where a person attempts to reactivate a firearm that was deactivated to a Home
Office approved standard, we provisionally propose that as a matter of law that
weapon should no longer be presumed to be deactivated and take advantage of
the presumption.
Do consultees agree?


Provisional proposal 12
9.18 We provisionally propose the amendment
of section 4(3) to put beyond doubt that
the offence can also be committed by someone who makes amendments to a
deactivated firearm with the intention of rendering it capable of discharging a
Do consultees agree?


Provisional proposal 13
9.19 We provisionally propose the law be amended to focus on the
of the
tools necessary to convert an imitation firearm into a live firearm.
Do consultees agree?

No. Two pieces of pipe, an end cap and a nail put together create a perfectly useable firearm. Search 'zip gun' or 'improvised firearm' on the Internet to see that this proposal will have no effect on criminals attempting to manufacture homemade firearms.

Provisional proposal 14
9.20 We provisionally propose the creation
of an offence of being in possession of
articles with the intention of using them unlawfully to convert imitation firearms
into live firearms.
Do consultees agree?  

No. This could have the effect of criminalizing someone in possession of a drill or a vice.

Provisional proposal 15
9.21 We provisionally propose that the current law governing firearms in England and
Wales is of such complexity that it is necessary for the Law Commission to
undertake a wider reform project to codify the law.
Do consultees agree?

Yes, but such reform should only be implemented to prevent otherwise law-abiding firearms users and enthusiasts being caught out and needlessly criminalized.

Consultation question 7
9.22 Do consultees have any examples of
the additional and unnecessary costs or
any dangers to the public that are attributable to the defects with the current law
governing the acquisition and possession of firearms?

- The need for Britain's Olympic Pistol team having to travel to France or any other country in Europe to practice their perfectly legitimate sport which was made illegal in Britain in 1997 yet remains legal in almost every other country.

- Non-lethal personal defence items such as pepper spray and electronic stun guns being categorized as Section.5 firearms (alongside machine guns) with anyone in possession being subject to a mandatory sentence of five years imprisonment. Rape victims have been jailed in the past for buying such items from tourist stalls while on holiday.

- Specifications for deactivated firearms described in schedule 5 of Home Office specifications (automatic rifles and submachine guns) aren't fit for purpose and render valuable pieces of history completely useless and highly unattractive to serious collectors, re-enactors and film makers. Such deactivated firearms cannot be field stripped and have no moving parts, meaning they cannot be used where filming requires a weapon to appear working, such as having it's bolt cocked back in the firing position. This has the effect of encouraging more live firearms to be obtained for film use and used instead where pre-1995 deactivation specifications would have sufficed for an accurate portrayal of realism. They also do not satisfy those with serious historical and technical interest who may simply acquire live firearms (and are usually encouraged to) instead than what are essentially useless welded up paperweights (current specification deactivated firearms).

Consultation question 8
9.23 We consider that the issues raised in this chapter are further examples of failings
in the present law that generate practical problems and which would be suitable
for resolution in a codification exercise. Do consultees agree?

Yes, the wording of the law unfairly criminalizes the otherwise law abiding.

Consultation question 9
9.24 Do consultees have suggestions of other areas of the law suitable for reform?

- Repeal the 1997 handgun ban

- Repeal the 1988 ban on 'self-loading' centre-fire rifles

- Repeal the ban on air guns that use a 'self contained gas cartridge system', added to sec.5 of the Firearms Act in 2004. These should be treated no different than any other air gun. It's simply ludicrous that certain air rifles are more restricted than live firing firearms.

- Exempt personal defence items such as pepper spray and electronic stun guns from Section.5 of the firearms act.

- Amend the Offensive Weapons List to give an exemption for collectors to buy and trade all items mentioned such as is the case with 'Samurai swords'. Many items such as 'gravity knives' are actually pieces of safety equipment used by parachutists.

The list itself contains completely nonsensical items such a 'footclaw' and other ninja memorabilia that can hardly be considered weapons.

Possessing 'information that could be useful for committing a terrorist act' should not be an offense. Law-abiding military historians and survival enthusiasts have been jailed for possessing books that are readily available on Amazon as well as freely online.



Explain how you as a collector or shooter are burdened by needless restrictions placed infront of your hobby. Make it clear that no new restrictions should be imposed, and instead unfair restrictions should be lifted.

Explain how the rest of Europe allows handgun ownership, do not place restrictions on airguns, airsoft, deactivated or replica guns and yet crime rates are in general a lot lower than those in the UK.

Explain how reproduction muzzleloading firearms such as those using a matchlock or flintlock mechanism should be entirely exempt from regulation, seeing as how in the rest of Europe they can be purchased freely and do not present a threat to the public.

Explain how criminals do not need poorly constructed replica guns or expensive deactivated guns to 'convert' and are more easily able to illegally manufacture perfectly useable firearms, from simple single-shot shotguns to submachine guns from nothing more than pipes and scrap metal using plans readily available plans via the internet.

Explain how self-defence is for all practical purposes completely illegal in the UK, seeing as how a law-abiding person cannot even possess a can of defensive irritant spray, which is legal and readily available across most of Europe.

By email to:
OR by post to        

Karl Laird, Criminal Law Team, Law Commission of England & Wales,  
1st Floor Tower, 52 Queen Anne’s Gate, London, SW1H 9AG.  
Tel: 020 3334 3162 / Fax: 020 3334 0201  

So who is joining?  ;)

The Free Republic of Liberland (Czech: Svobodná republika Liberland) is a micronation claiming a parcel of land on the western bank of the Danube river between Croatia and Serbia, sharing a land border with the former. It was proclaimed on 13 April 2015 by Czech libertarian politician and activist Vít Jedlička.[1][2]

The official website of Liberland states that the nation was created due to the ongoing Croatia–Serbia border dispute.[3][4][5] There has been no diplomatic recognition of Liberland by any country from the United Nations, and most legal experts agree that Jedlička's claims lack legal basis.

Croatia has started blocking access to the area since the beginning of May 2015.[6] Vít Jedlička was twice detained for less than a day by Croatian authorities in the same month.

Within their constitution’s Bill of Rights, that clearly took inspiration from the U.S. Constitution, gun rights are guaranteed. Section seventeen of the Bill of Rights speaks loudly to the subject of both defense and firearm ownership, as it reads, “No law shall abridge the right of self-defense against initiators of aggression, including the agents of the Public Administration where acting unlawfully, including the right, to own, manufacture, sell, and bear arms."

A presentation by John Hurst and Richard Law. It's the 4th video down.

Organization and Activism / Invitation to speak at Exeter University
« on: September 18, 2014, 05:01:41 pm »
Would anyone down south be able to attend a debate at Exeter University? Apparently Peter Squires will be attending.

"I am writing to invite you to speak in one of our upcoming debates. The debate, to be held on Friday 10th October at 7:00 pm, is entitled ‘This House would grant a right to bear firearms’ and we would invite you to propose the motion. We think this a very interesting, current topic that will spark an excellent debate and hope you agree.

The format of the debate is as follows: Each speaker (two for each side) is invited to give a 5 minute, uninterrupted opening speech, followed by a round of questions from the audience, with answers and debate encouraged between the proposition and the opposition. Each side is then given the opportunity to present a two minute summation outlining their arguments.
Speakers often say how much they have enjoyed their trip to Exeter, and whilst our debates finish early enough to catch the last trains from St Davids, all speakers are invited to join us at the pub to continue the debate"

Organization and Activism / ** Handgun ban Repeal petition (2014) **
« on: March 23, 2014, 12:24:34 pm »

This petition has already gained over 4,000 signatures over a couple of days, so please take the time to sign and promote further.

News / UKIP's Nigel Farage calls for end to handgun ban
« on: January 24, 2014, 10:20:35 pm »
Please vote 'yes' in both polls:

"Asked if Ukip’s policy on gun control would be to allow handguns to be ‘kept in the locked box and you’ve got your license’, he replied: ‘’Absolutely.’"


It seems a notable airsoft retailer is forwarding his suggestions to the Home Office due to the current legislation surrounding RIFs (namely non bright coloured airsoft guns) being in his view 'unenforceable'. Contrary to his own logic It seems he believes adding more laws will make things more 'enforceable' (and of course monopolize everything in the hands of Registered Firearm Dealers...)

"The full suggestions sent to the Home Office include:

    All RIFs should be sold through Air weapon RFDs, (at least 50% of UKARA retailers are already RFDs)
    RIFs to be sold to 18 and over only
    Only Air weapon RFDs should be allowed to import RIFs
    No restrictions on posting RIFs
    2nd hand sales only through Air weapon RFD monitored resources."

Organization and Activism / EU Gun Control Questionnaire
« on: June 12, 2013, 12:55:08 am »
Please take the time to fill out the short questionnaire in the link below with regards to potential future EU gun control measures.

News / New Sportsman's Association petition - Handgun & SLR ban
« on: February 19, 2013, 03:22:22 pm »
"Dear Member, supporter,
Please see this latest e-petition sent to me by Derek Bernard. I have posted it to our website. Dave Derricks e-petition on the repeal of the 2nd amendment sadly only attracted 11,500 signatures. Our effort for Sgt Danny Nightingale got over 100,000 hits. Do your bit on this one....

There are a small, but almost continuous stream of government epetitions in which the object is to reduce the anti-social severity of the UK’s gun laws.  Sometimes the aim is very modest, sometimes more ambitious.  The present one aims to restore the law to the position prior to the 1988 and 1997 Amendment Acts.  Neither act produced any social benefit, in either the short-term, or longer-term.  On the contrary, both cost the UK taxpayer a great deal of money, wasted millions of police man-hours and hurt many tens of thousands of citizens who had not committed any crime.

News / SAGBNI handgun ban fight fund
« on: January 18, 2013, 08:02:52 pm »
Below is an email they have sent out:


"The Sportsman's Association of Great Britain & Northern Ireland are lobbying the Government to repeal the 2nd amendment and restore .22 target pistols to section 1 status.
We need your help. We shall be at the British shooting Show on 9-10 February at Stoneleigh fundraising.

I am asking you for a donation to help this Association to reverse the decision the Labour Government made in  late1997
The ban on the private possession of handguns in Great Britain came into effect in two stages. A Conservative Government banned all large-calibre handguns from July 1, 1997, with a period up to the end of September, in which all such guns had to be handed to the police. Following a general election in May 1997, the Labour Government extended the ban to all small-calibre (.22 rimfire) handguns, which had to be handed in before the end of February 1998. More than 162,000 handguns and 700 tonnes of ammunition was handed in. More than £80 million was paid in compensation and the cost of the confiscation scheme to police and government cost tens of millions more.

Please send a donation in the following ways;

News / (AUDIO) Gun Rights Policy Conference Panel: Global Gun Control
« on: November 20, 2012, 07:31:15 pm »

The 2012 Gun Rights Policy Conference was held in Orlando, Florida and jointly hosted by the Second Amendment Foundation ( and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ( Follow news related to the UN ATT at

“Global Gun Control, Down But Not Out”

Gary Burres of LSSA (00.00-06.05)

Sheldon Clare of NFA (06.06-13.14)

Gen. Allen Youngman of DSAAC (13.15-23.52)

News / (Restored post) Topic WE'RE BACK
« on: November 03, 2012, 05:23:26 pm »
« on: September 28, 2012, 04:53:06 am »

Posted by:


And to jump start this place back into discussion, what a result:


News / (Restored post) 2 police officers shot dead in Manchester
« on: November 03, 2012, 05:19:15 pm »
Graham Showell

« Posted on: September 28, 2012, 07:44:44 pm »

Since we've all been away for a while, I thought I'd start this top -

2 police officers SHOT dead in a country with gun laws almost on a par with those in Mexico. This happened in broad daylight by someone who would never have been granted an FAC under any circumstances.

And yet, Lucy Cope and the GCN haven't issued a single article or statement. I wonder why ?

Organization and Activism / Forum member locations
« on: June 11, 2012, 03:13:51 pm »
If you'd like, state where you are located. Gauging a picture of where our supporters are concentrated will aid in organising events and meet ups as well as selecting regional organisers & spokespeople.


Mike Newbern  - Updated numbers from Kleck are 2739 successful uses of firearms in self-defense each day, 2747 during leap year. Number of lives saved is likely MUCH higher when you consider a home invasion is likely to have multiple residents/occupants saved.

The Brady Campaign's new numbers put gun murders at 33 per day. In fact, FBI has noticed a downward trend in violent crime 4 years running.

Let's assume this photo is a year old. There were 1.5 million background checks during December 2011, 102,000 on 12/23. Self-reported gun ownership is the highest it's been since 1993.

So, while the number of guns on the streets legal and illegal increases, so does the number of successful self-defense uses while gun murders and all violent crime actually drops. It is indeed true. More guns = less crime.

Everyone is invited to the private board to discuss this - request access if you cannot log in.

News / Italian gun manufacturers supporting domestic gun bans
« on: June 04, 2012, 01:54:57 am »

Here it is: the INFAMOUS E-MAIL from Denis Fontana:
He's the owner and chief operations of a small firearms factory:
"fine craftmanship" firearms, you know, the ones that made Italian workmanship famous.

HERE IS MY ADVICE: YOU'RE BETTER OF LEARNING PLAY CHESS [or insert any gayish non-sport instead ] ?

Do you want the e-mail address of this.. well, gentleman?
There you go:

News / Italian mayor photographed carrying gun for self-defence
« on: June 04, 2012, 01:41:19 am »

translation - we talk about the newly elected mayor of Taranto, Ippazio Stephen with a coalition of center-left (75% of votes) who committed the "original sin" of legally go armed to the celebrations of the election.
They call it for years, "the pediatrician of the poor" for their activities in favor of the less well off, but when a reporter saw just check the revolver from under his coat (and it must report it in the picture with a red circle, or else no one can to see it) during the celebrations for the election - not performing, you can barely check - down controversy, mainly by the same left that well - in part - it had supported during the election campaign.
Stephen responded to the controversy seraphically "threaten me for years, the stock do not want (great example for those who have and use it as a taxi) do not want to sacrifice myself."
To a certain policy that will threaten all right but you get killed like a dog because they defend themselves in a message is too dangerous.
Is a final thought from the words of Stephen "Taranto is a dangerous city in recent years as many as 18 fighters ended up in hospital in Taranto and also I have been attacked, fortunately without consequences. I bring the gun more as a deterrent and as a psychological weapon for myself ... But I also tutelarmi not want to sacrifice myself. " And then he promised: "I want to continue the battle for legality because this is good for everyone."
Now Taranto is dangerous for everyone, not just the mayor but if a normal citizen applies for a firearms license we already know how it ends: the Prefecture under its "discretion" will refuse to sell.

And this "discretion" would probably change it a little time, perhaps with the same guidelines for everyone. We'll talk.

News / Russian Gun Group Joins IAPCAR's Global Gun Rights Coalition
« on: June 04, 2012, 01:18:45 am »

"BELLEVUE, Wash., May 4, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The International Association for the Protection of Civilian Arms Rights (IAPCAR) added Russia's The Right to Arms as its newest member working to protect and expand the right to keep and bear arms around the globe. Right to Arms joins a coalition of 20 other groups from 11 countries on five different continents that represent millions of firearm owners and citizens concerned about civilian arms rights."

News / In Turkey, Debating A Woman's Right To Bear Arms
« on: June 03, 2012, 11:44:15 pm »

"In Turkey, hundreds of women die each year at the hands of a husband or family member, in a society that critics say too often ignores violence against women. After years of frustration, one organization has shaken up the debate with a controversial proposal: arming women and training them to defend themselves."

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